|
993 suspension FAQs
This FAQ page lists different suspension
options for the 993 based cars, the page is categorized into different
sections according to their purpose. Thanks to Steve Weiner at Rennsport
system and Viken for majority of their contribution. Hopefully
the gathered information would be helpful to 993 owners who wants to make
decisions about upgrading their suspensions.
Click
here to learn about general information on suspension basics
Quick
references
An
explanation of the Porsche factory suspension on the US version 993s. (applies
to US NA 993)
By
Viken
Bedrossian
All the US specification 993s came with
2 different suspension options. The standard M032 setup and the optional
M030 sport chassis. You will have to look at your car's option sticker
to see if it came with the sports chassis M030. The M030 option was
only offered on the Coupe models including the Carrera S and Carrera 4S.
The 993 Turbo already had the M030 sport chassis with the exception of
a slightly firmer rear spring to compensate for the heavier rear weight.
The M030 sport chassis option included firmer shocks and springs and slightly
thicker anti-roll bars. There were some slight anti-roll bar differences
between narrow and wide body cars as well. The ride height of all
US 993 cars were the same regardless of suspension setup. The US
cars were approximately 20 mm higher in front and 10 mm higher at rear
than the standard ROW (rest of world) cars. On the other hand, all
US cars were approximately 30 mm higher all around than the ROW M030 equipped
cars. A US car equipped with the factory M030 chassis could be retrofitted
with the ROW M030 springs for a 30 mm lower ride height without having
to change the shocks. After market springs such as Eibach and H&R
could also work well with either standard or sport shocks. This method
is quite popular and the least expensive method.
Street
option
(95%
street 5% track)
Price
range (Parts cost only)
$350-$400 Porsche ROW, Eibach,
H&R springs contributed by
Viken
Bedrossian
| Spring change
only, for a visual ride height and handling improvement. The ride
quality is not terrible when it is combined with US shocks, but the standard
US shocks are too soft and are not a good match to these springs.
These springs combined with standard shocks might result in a choppy ride
rather than a firm and consistent one. It is better to combine these
springs with either factory M030 shocks or after market quality units such
as Koni or Bilstein (Eibach, H&R, springs cost about $350 the labor
to install is about $400) Eibach lowers the front about 2", rear about
1.5", same for H&R. |
$1800-$2000 Porsche MO3O parts
(shocks/springs/anti-roll bars) contributed
by Viken Bedrossian
| The M030 sport chassis setup
offers an excellent compromise between handling and ride comfort. The ROW
M030 springs lower the US car by approximately 30 mm for a more civilized
look but also offers progressive front spring rates for a slightly improved
ride quality over the US springs. With a lower center of gravity, the 993
will corner considerably flatter thus exhibiting more grip from the tires.
The ROW M030 setup is highly recommended for those who wish to keep their
Porsche all factory and occasionally take their 993's to the racetrack
but also drive the car mostly on the highways.
Factory shocks part numbers:
M030 ROW front: 993.343.041/042.35
(yellow color)
M030 ROW rear: 993.333.051/052.35
(red color - yellow dot)
M030 USA front: 993.343.041/042.35
(yellow color) this is same as ROW
M030 USA rear:
993.333.051/052.36 (red color - green dot)
Factory springs part numbers:
M030 ROW front: 965.343.531.01
(orange/green dots)
M030 ROW rear: 993.333.531.11
(brown dots)
M030 USA front: 964.343.531.12
(orange dots)
M030 USA rear:
993.333.531.13 (light blue dots)
For
a complete listing of the M030 part numbers
please
click here
|
$1800-$2000 Porsche M030 springs + Bilstein
HD shocks (shocks/springs) contributed
by Viken Bedrossian and
Dan
96C2 St. Louis
| This is another suspension upgrade option
that many have found to work out really well with the 993 chasis.
Although the factory M030 setup provides a fairly good setup option for
993 owners, it is said that there are questionable logivity issues with
the shocks. The Bilstein HDs will certainly fill that void.
Below is a post Viken made regarding his personal experiences with the
Bilstein HD in conjunction with the factory M030 ROW springs.
You can purchase
the Bilstein HD shocks
by themselves or with M030
springs directly from Gert at Carnewal.com
Review by
Viken
For the record, I ran factory M030 dampers
with ROW M030 springs for several years. My car was lowered about 1” ±
1/8” and handled beautifully both on the street and occasional track driving.
One area in which this setup was rather poor is the life span of the shock
absorbers. After about 20,000 miles, they showed signs of wear and got
progressively worse. The ride deteriorated from firm to harsh and the car
wallowed badly affecting grip at higher speeds. Today, I had the shocks
replaced with a set of Bilstein HD’s and kept my ROW M030 springs. These
shocks are replacement units, which are designed to work with the factory
as well as aftermarket lowering springs. My goal was to achieve the same
exact ride height as before while running higher quality dampers.
Front shocks: To my surprise, Bilstein
provides a few less threads on these and the lowest thread is approximately
¼” higher than the factory’s. Luckily, at the lowest setting, my
car sat exactly where it was before the change. However, those desiring
a lower ride height would have to go with shorter springs or a true coil-over
system. Obviously, there is no problem fitting standard height springs
(US or ROW) with these shocks.
Rear shocks: Thank God Bilstein
provided threads on these. In fact, there are more than twice the threads
on the rears as are on the fronts. There was no problem keeping my previous
ride height and there is room for approximately another ½” of lowering.
With these shocks, provided are height-adjustable stabilizer collars to
accommodate adjustable anti-roll bars. If fixed bars are used, Bilstein
provides slightly smaller drop links for those.
On the road: The Bilstein’s are firm but
don’t appear to be firmer than the factory M030’s. I was hoping for a little
bit more damping but at least the car doesn’t feel under-damped. Perhaps,
these are appropriate quality replacements rather than performance improving
shocks? Hopefully, more seat time will tell if there are actual improvements.
Stay tuned!
RoW M030 with HD
Bilstein Suspension
Installation Report
by
Dan
96C2 St. Louis
(Rennlist 993 Forum 6/20/02)
The installation of Gert Carnewall’s RoW M030
w/HD Bilstein kit has transformed my US stock suspension 993 coupe into
what I imagine the Porsche design team had originally intended – maybe
even better. However, it’s not a perfect install as I’ll discuss below.
Initial Driving Impressions
I assume that although I didn’t realize
it, my oem shocks were shot, because my car is now much more comfortable,
relaxed and smoother over rough roads, speed bumps, etc. than with the
supposedly softer oem setup. Or maybe it’s the magic of progressive springs
& the Bilsteins. All I know is with a non-aggressive street alignment,
normal driving is more serene – ‘tho still very much a sports car ride
(it’s not Lexus soft). When pushed there is noticeably less body
roll, nice, crisp turn in, less brake dive, in fact, there is improvement
in everything related to the suspension. I sought out entry ramps
I’m familiar with that have broken pavement, dips, or, for one, rough pothole
patches through the apex, and the car handled them w/o a ripple while before
the car would hop, become unsettled and require slower speeds. The
car is just so much easier to drive faster and smoother that it really
is like a new car. The real handling test will come at next month’s DE,
but my confidence level has already gotten a big boost and my enjoyment
of the car has definitely increased. Everything considered this is an extremely
worthwhile and cost effective upgrade, IMO.
Installation Concerns
Two concerns arose during installation.
My installer (Reid Vann here in St. Louis) had no previous experience with
this kit, although they have extensive P car repair, upgrade, race prep,
etc. background. I posted on Rennlist & got a predictably rapid &
helpful response from several Rennlisters. In addition, the concerns were
emailed to Gert who was wonderfully responsive, got on it immediately (at
2am his time) and within a half day the concerns were resolved. Gert
– you’re a prince! I’ve since found that others had the same concerns
raised by their shops, so hopefully this post will provide a heads up &
ease the installation of this great upgrade.
1. Front
- the inside diameter of the bottom spring coil is about a 1/2 inch greater
than the diameter of the raised interior lip portion of the perch on which
it sits. Under load that's not a problem. My shop was concerned that if
unloaded (i.e. a really BIG bump) it could rattle - not a safety/handling
issue, but rather the potential for noise. We followed the advice
of Gert & others not to worry, that it won't happen in real world driving
& so far it has not been a problem even at speed over rough roads.
2. Rear - the spring length is less
than the shock length, so, when unloaded (i.e., on a lift or when jacked)
the spring drops down & the top of the spring comes away from the upper
mounting cup. Here too, Gert & others advised not to worry, because
when reloaded it will go back into place. My shop, to be (perhaps over)
cautious drilled holes in the top mount & safety wired the springs
to keep them properly positioned even on a lift - apparently a common race
car practice. Although it may be a cure for a non-problem, I appreciated
my shop’s concern & conservative approach.
Limited Lowering
Obviously, from a performance/handling
perspective, my expectations have been surpassed. The only shortcoming
is aesthetic, and it’s not major compared to the benefit achieved. As has
been noted by others, the rear strut has a wide height adjustment
range. However, the front does not. My install is as low in the front as
possible with the rear adjusted accordingly. At its lowest the front is
still about 1/4" or so higher than I wanted & the rake is also not
quite where I prefer. There were 2 compromise cures suggested to me by
other owners (besides getting different springs), but both involve altering
the kit. First, eliminating the perch locking nut would drop the front
a bit. Neither my shop nor I felt comfortable with that suggestion.
The second (done by at least 2 Rennlisters) is to shorten the front spring
length by cutting off coil & thus drop the front the desired amount.
Here too, my shop & I are nervous about possibly altering spring rates
or otherwise upsetting the balance inherent in the kit. I have decided
to enjoy the present setup, put some miles on the car, let the car settle
over the next month, see how everything works on the track, find out how
the cut coil cars are faring and then decide if I feel the surgical front
end lowering is needed. |
Street/track
option
(50%
street 50% track)
$2000-$3000 H&R
Coil over or Bilstein PSS-9 and 993-RSR
setup (shocks/springs anti-roll bars)
Pictures
+ Information contributed by Steve Weiner, please visit Steve's for detail information
|
|
Here
is a picture of the complete H&R coil over kit
(Picture
contributed by Gert)
|
Here
is the RS Adjustable sway bar installed with H&R Coilovers
|
H&R
Coilovers or Bilstein PSS-9 (993-0nly) & Carrera RS Adjustable Sway
bars
By
Steve
Weiner
These kits are based upon
using either the H&R Coil over or the new Bilstein PSS-9 setup, together
with the adjustable sway bars from the European Carrera RS that was not
offered in North America. H&R Coilovers are available with single or
dual spring setups and the PSS-9 is a dual spring only. The new Bilstein
suspension features 9 adjustments of bump and rebound!
Monoball-equipped camber
plates are also available but not generally recommended for street use
unless additional camber is required.
The front bar is a 23 mm,
5-way adjustable unit and the rear bar is a 20 mm, 3-way adjustable unit.
These come with all necessary brackets and drop links. The front drop links
for a C4 or C4S will clear the front drive shafts except for the front
most hole.
Below
are some pictures of the PSS-9 system contributed by Steve Weiner
for
detail information please visit Rennsport
System's web site
|
|
Here
are the 9-way adjusting knobs on the bottom of the struts and the rear
shocks. The alloy collar is the rear upper sway bar mount that is movable
for eliminating pre load |
993-RSR
Suspension System
By
Steve
Weiner
This is the ultimate in handling,
adjustability, and flexibility. This can be designed for street or track
use depending upon usage. Street systems ride firmer than stock without
beating you up on bad roads. Ride height and corner weight is totally adjustable
due to the threaded-body struts and shocks. Springs are dual-rate units
with main springs and tender springs to allow suspension compliance over
small road irregularities and keeps the springs tight between the perches
when the suspension is unloaded. European Carrera RS Sway bars are included
in this system as well as a polished aluminum Strut Brace for the front
end.
This system is custom designed
for each car. We select the proper springs and shock valving to match the
application.
|
|
|
993
RSR Front
|
993
RSR Rear
|
Here is John's impression
of the H&R coil over setup (Rennlist 993/996 Discussion board)
H&R Coilovers
- driving notes (long)
Posted By: John ('98
C2S in VA) <johnhuang@yahoo.com>
Date: Wednesday, 21 March
2001, at 9:53 p.m.
There's been a lot of traffic
lately about lowering springs, M030 packages (US and ROW), H&R coilovers,
H&R supercup coilovers, etc. I finally decided to quiet the discussion
once and for all (just kidding) by "donating" $2k to the cause of research.
Noble thing IMHO. Ha ha.
WARNING: Don't read any
further if you want to keep that extra $2k you had stashed away for your
Porsche's rainy day fund. I will now be one of the loudest advocates of
making this switch if you are looking for a great street handling/ride
quality balance with some serious improvement (hopefully) on the track.
In a nutshell - if you like
a more controlled, better balanced ride than simple lowering springs and
OEM shocks can offer, run, don't walk, to your nearest H&R distributor.
My frame of reference. My
'98 C2S is my second Porsche (it's my daily driver). My first was a '92
Carrera Cup Car (street legal somehow). My previous daily driver was a
'98 M3/4 (four door for the uninitiated). On occasion, I instruct at Summit
Point racetrack (I've had all three of these cars on the track there).
I like tight structures and chassis rigidity (love the previous generations
of Mercedes). I like the suspensions to do most of the work.
I loved the solid structure
of my Cup Car but the suspension would be too harsh for a daily driver
-- mainly due to the monoball strut mounts.
I didn't like the feel of
the C2S suspension when I got it. It had Eibach lowering springs and standard
(not M030) struts. I felt the ride quality was slightly harsh -- more like
unmatched -- and the front end hopped too much. Both of these were due
to the fact that the increased Eibach spring rates overpowered the stock
struts. Essentially, too much spring rate with too little quality damping.
Those who have changed another car's struts from OEM to Bilstein will understand
the "quality damping" statement.
I've also driven several
standard and M030 US suspensions without lowering springs. IMHO I feel
these suspensions are slightly too loose (not to mention the gawd awful
ride height).
Anyway, after six hours
of newbie suspension installation, I decided to take a five minute test
ride at moderate speeds, come back and check up on the installation to
make sure there was no installer error.
Those first five minutes
sold me.
At our neighborhood entrance,
we have a long section of cobblestones that are about one inch too high
(the second layer of asphalt before and after the cobblestones still has
to be laid). Usually, the previous suspension felt harsh going onto and
off of the cobblestones. I was expecting worse with the new suspension.
IT WAS BETTER -- more controlled with a tighter feel that combined for
what feels like less harshness. Also, the ride over the cobblestones was
marginally better. Went about 2-3 miles, came back, checked everything.
Then, went out for the real
fun. 30 minutes of back road fun here in the area (sorry to anyone that
might live in Great Falls, VA!). What a blast. Much more control, less
suspension harshness, better steering feel. Best $2k I've spent in a while.
I've put on 150 miles or
so since finishing the installation and wouldn't even think about going
back. Driving in downtown DC report will come tomorrow. I'm not expecting
any unhappy surprises.
BIG PLUS -- my wife usually
complains when I modify something on one of our cars (exceptions were the
Jim Conforti OBDII and airbox upgrades on my M3). After she took the car
out for an errand yesterday, her comments ranged from "can't tell much
of a difference" to "well, OK, it has a bit more of the solid feel like
my old C280 Sport." This from a woman who thinks spending additional money
on a $80k car is ridiculous. She supports this (although doesn't realize
it cost $2k).
I still have to get the
car corner balanced, adjusted for rake and aligned (happening sometime
next week). However, I've set the height about the same (maybe 1/4" lower)
as the previous Eibachs and my alignment settings weren't affected too
much.
Anyway, to summarize, this
is a great upgrade, particularly if you like refinement, control and a
lowered look -- especially if you track or DE the car at all. |
|
Track
option
Price
range
$2500 Racer's group GT-2 suspension .................. Need
info here
$4600 JRZ option By Greg Fishman
| Shocks JRZ single adjustable with 14 levels
Springs Faulkner 450lb front and 600 lb rear Front Camber Plates not sure
of brand was told they were identical to the RSR front camber plates. No
sway bar adjustments or replacements. Car is lowered at least an inch (never
measured it) but it is definitely lower than a car lowered with the ROW
springs. This is not the best street set-up IMO, the car is too stiff
to enjoy. I would go with the M030 and ROW springs for mostly street/occasional
track. My car is almost exclusively a track car anymore. Car handles
great, These opinions are mine and other more experienced drivers. Car
could be stiffer if complete monoball bearings were installed. The car
is very neutral. The only time it has understeered on me was when
I had the front shocks set on full stiff as well as the rear. My car feels
best when the rear are set to 14 and the front are at 12 or 11 depending
on the track. Best advice I can give is to make sure to use a good
shop. I figured it should be a bolt on job, but apparently it is not.
The total price of this package is Shocks $2800, springs $300, Camber
Plates $500, installation about $1000, parts were purchased from Joe Fabiani
at Fabspeed |
Below is
a gathering of posts from Rennlist regarding the suspension upgrade topic
Q:
Yellow
User # 810
posted 06-25-2001 22:15
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, I'll finally be springing
for it (pun intended). It's going to be one or the other.
But there's the $1K difference,
which could be well spent on other cool stuff for the car. Can anyone please
educate me on the benefits of either setup? I track my car about 3 times
a year at most, but I suspect it may be the aesthetics that's really won
me over.
Thanks all.
A:
JC
in NY
User
# 305
posted
06-26-2001 00:11
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I
think the H&R setup is better because it's more flexible in terms of
height adjustment, the spring rates are a bit stiffer and you can fit the
RS anti-roll bars. Serious driving demands a serious solution. How serious
are you?
Steve
Weiner-Rennsport Systems
User
# 95
posted
06-26-2001 04:20
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi
Ben:
If
I can just quickly jump in here on this one,.....
IMHO,
if one is doing mostly street driving with few DE events and the overall
expectations are not for maximum handling, you cannot beat the Euro M030
system for value gained.
On
the other hand, if one wants the maxiumum performance and adjustability/tunability
potential, then the H&R Coilover and RS swaybar package is recommended.
In
several weeks, there will be some other options for 9-way double adjustable
coilovers that will lie between the H&R's and Moton/JRZ stuff.
Chris
in Detroit
User
# 370
posted
06-26-2001 08:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally
posted by JC in NY:
I
think the H&R setup is better because it's more flexible in terms of
height adjustment, the spring rates are a bit stiffer and you can fit the
RS anti-roll bars. Serious driving demands a serious solution. How serious
are you?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OTOH,
H&R setup might (depending upon personal taste) be too harsh for the
street, M030 would be perfect, but not quite all there for the track -
you have to choose, what is the primary use. For example, I have a setup
similar to H&R and find it just a bit harsh for the street - OK, but
if I never did track events I would remove it. But its wonderful for the
track ...... This is a VERY subjective area.
Chris
1996
993 Carrera |
Q:
Richard C4S
User # 560
posted 06-26-2001 12:17
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Well,
First I want to thank
many of you on this board for educating me about 993s over the past several
years. I wrestled with the 996 vs 993 thing but after driving the 2 and
having been imprinted on the wide-hip look I have finally found my dream
p-car in an arena red/cashmere & black C4S. In fact I even found it
advertised on Rennlist. It has a stock suspension which I am content with
but my question is does this suspension differ from the stock C2S in that
I gleaned that it is essentially a turbo-less turbo?
Richard
A:
Viken
User
# 2
posted
06-26-2001 12:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The
stock suspension of the 993 C4S is the same as all the 993's except for
a slightly different rear anti-roll bar dimension. The 993 Turbo came standard
with the otherwise optional (on the others) M030 sport chassis.
--------------------
Viken
Bedrossian
1996
911 Carrera 4S |
Q:
CA993
User # 1634
posted 06-27-2001 19:30
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I have recently taken
delivery of a 1997 993 TT and wanted feedback as to experiences with changing
out the factory springs to Porsche factory european springs, techart, eibach,
etc. The car will be strictly used on the street. Suggestions?
A:
Viken
User
# 2
posted
06-27-2001 19:49
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Your
best bet is to change to the factory ROW springs. This will lower the car
between 3/4" to 1-1/4" depending on rear rubber shim sizes and corner balancing.
The ride will be much the same or slightly more compliant due to the progressive
rate ROW springs but the handling will be much improved.
--------------------
Viken
Bedrossian
1996
911 Carrera 4S |
Q:
Ric
User # 881
posted 06-28-2001 13:24
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I am about to install
the H&R coilover (street) setup on my 96 C4S, along with RSR sway bars.
Any suggestions on how much to drop the height of the car (w/18" wheels)?
I live in the Bay area, will do some track events, but most use will be
street. I want an aggressive look, but still streetable. Any comments?
A:
Viken
User
# 2
posted
06-28-2001 14:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Try
3/4" to 1". Anything more might cause rubbing and/or clearance problems
depending on your specific situation.
--------------------
Viken
Bedrossian
1996
911 Carrera 4S
Ran
User
# 176
posted
06-28-2001 15:42
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Based
SOLELY on pics of stock ht versus actual look of my 993, I have a feeling
mine may be a wee bit lower than the 3/4 to 1 inch that you are writing
about. NO rubbing at all. This weekend we tried with my wife in back seat
too and did not experience any rubbing at all.
Just
thought I'd post that its possible, though probably a function of something
else done right, or I may just be wrong about guestimating height differences.
Regardless, my car does not have that look of fenders hiding part of the
tyres which I hate.. the gap between fender and tyre is fairly constant
in the sides and top. Not that totally "slammed" look.
BTW,
we also learnt that back seat may look like it fits sideways but headroom
is impossible - totally forgot to think of the fact that headroom would
be different in the back seat than in the front seat - usually its more
in other cars
She
had to sit behind passenger with legs on drivers side and head bent down.
And I thought this would be ideal car since we never really use the M3
backseat except in a rare instance like this so a slight discomfort for
legs was okay. STill, it worked for what its worth though she wanted to
take the M on the trip to return friend.
JC
in NY
posted
06-28-2001 16:10
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I
like the European RS height which is quite low - perhaps too low for most
but good enough for European sport drivers. The height is measured front
and rear at specific chassis points under the car. If you are interested
I will post them.
Carmen
User
# 53
posted
06-28-2001 22:37
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Ric,
I
installed just the H&R springs, not the whole shabang.. yet.. and yes
it dropped it more than an inch or so.. I have had no problems with tires
rubbing, with or with out others in car.. including wife and dogs...does
give it one heck of an aggressive look tho...
Carmen
95
993 Cab
Chris
in Detroit
User
# 370
posted
06-29-2001 00:06
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
You
should talk in terms of what height you want to achieve - rather than drop,
since your car may be a little "off" in terms of ride height at the moment
- may as well aim for some version of perfection.
Anyway,
for reference, and from Workshop Manual:
All
values are axle heights in millimetres to the measurement points. Front
point is road surface to outer hexagon head bolt of "cross member to mounting".
Rear point is road surface to rear mating face of bottom of subframe. There
are diags in Manual
USA
Std: Front 174mm, Rear 157mm
USA
Sport: Front 174mm, Rear 157mm
ROW
Std: Front 154mm, Rear 147mm
ROW
Sport: Front 144mm, Rear 127mm
Carrera
S / 4S: Same as Sport for USA / ROW as appropriate
Carrera
RS: Front 124mm, Rear 107mm
Measurements
are plus/minus 10mm
So
from this, note that Carrera RS was a full 50mm or about 2" lower than
US Std !
My
own car is lowered to halfway between ROW Sport and RS settings - very
occasionally my 18" (Hollow Spoke Turbo) wheels will scrape going over
very broken pavement. But only very occasionally - like I can remember
it maybe twice.
From
this, I deduce you wouldn't want to go much lower than ROW Sport - or,
say 1.25" lower than US Std. without starting to think pretty carefully
about rubbing, wheel offsets etc.
Hope
this is helpful
Chris
roger
sf
User
# 372
osted
06-29-2001 00:27
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Mine
went from a front fender well "top of the arch" height of 27" down to 26".
I had the fender wells rolled and have a scrape bar at the nose. I like
the look of the car and wouldn't take it any lower, as the scrape bar gets
plenty of use as it is.
  
Ran
User
# 176
posted
06-29-2001 08:40
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Roger,
Thanks.
Nice basis for comparison. Mine is about a quarter of an inch lower on
the fronts. As I said before, seems fine and no rubbing even with adult
wt in rear seat but previous owner did it so am not sure about exact stuff
done. Also rear measures just that little bit lower than front - maybe
another quarter inch atleast insofar as the fender way of measuring in
the manner you described. What I have:-
Front:-
Eibach springs; Bilstein adjustable gas struts; Adjustable Porsche
swaybar;
strut brace
Rear:-
bilstein adjustable; rear sway bar adjustable; adjustable sway links, teflon
greasable bushings.
Rob
W,
haha...
funny guy huh. The 5 9 part was the problem due to lower roof, NOT the
130 lbs of unsprung wt. BTW, after all those turbo mods on your car, if
you need any bod mod, you know, I'm your man!! new slicks for the treadmill
for some 0 - 8 mph in 7 secs and lotsa other commercial grade fit equip
in basement - college job was trainer. So any and all kinds of mods available
from washboards to pump up looks. Haven't dyno'd car but have dyno'd
self. Rob, did you do any suspension mods on the car of course? I read
that thread about your power mods but do not recall susp mods. Thx. |
Q:
McCulla
User # 1739
posted 07-08-2001 15:42
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I'm having the complete
Euro Sport M030 suspension package put on my 96 C4S in about 3 weeks, (shocks,
springs, sway bars, links, bushings, etc.) and am wondering if anyone has
any experience with tire rubbing, railroad tracks, sloped driveways and
the like. How careful are you having to be? Thanks!!
A:
DJ
User
# 87
posted
07-08-2001 16:19
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I've
had this setup on my car, and you shouldn't have any problems at all. At
the worst, you'll have to be a little more careful with steep driveways
(or the underside of the nose may rub the ground). Other than that, no
worries.
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~DJ
Viken
User
# 2
posted
07-08-2001 18:49
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The
ROW M030 is designed by the factory to work properly on the 993 provided
you are running wheels and tires of reasonably close dimensions to stock.
Also, the springs are designed to drop the US cars by about 30 mm (1-1/8")
but this can vary from car to car. Also, it is possible to control the
amount of drop by using one of three different rubber shims at the top
of the rear springs.
--------------------
Viken
Bedrossian
1996
911 Carrera 4S
Viken
User
# 2
posted
07-08-2001 21:22
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quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally
posted by McCulla:
Viken,
I assume I can request a particular option on the rubber shim height determination(?)
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Your
assumption is correct. However, your car already has one of the three installed
and if left alone, you should expect a drop of around 30 mm.
--------------------
Viken
Bedrossian
1996
911 Carrera 4S
Ray
Calvo
User
# 337
posted
07-08-2001 22:56
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McCulla,
don't know what part of the country you're from, but you might/might not
have problems. I'm in hilly Western PA, where a flat section of road is
nonexistent, and hilly intersections can be a problem. Way to reduce this
is to attack such areas (incl. driveways) from the side rather than head-on.
Greatly reduces potential for bottoming problems.
Tire
bottoming/rubbing should only be a problem with aftermarket wheels. I am
running stock 17" "Cup" wheels with 225/45 front tires and 255/40 rears.
Mille Miglia aftermarket wheels caused tire rubbing in the rear, but these
are offset to the outside at least 1/2" from stock rims (same 9X17 size).
I
did the M030 installation myself, then copied a page from the shop manual
on Euro alignment and height and told the dealer to adjust it to those
specs. I measured rear height before I brought it in, and it pretty much
matched Euro height spec; think they might have tweaked the front a little.
I didn't do any changing of the rear spring bushing to adjust the rears.
Good
luck. |
Q:
gums
User # 2796
posted 08-20-2001 22:57
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I've read over everything
related on as many sites as I could, and now I'm either starting a new
string, or I missed the point. My question is, how does this Bilstein Coilover
kit, that is being advertised as installed, aligned and corner weighted
for $2800 stack up? Anyone know how it would compare to H&R, M030,
etc?
I think I'm going to
go for it on my C2S.
--------------------
Black C2S
A:
Steve
Weiner-Rennsport Systems
User
# 95
posted
08-21-2001 03:05
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Hi:
The
new Bilstein PSS-9 coilover kits are an excellent alternative to the H&R
coilover kits and should be regarded as a major upgrade.
FWIW,
I've posted some pics of the kits and the adjusters, on our website. Take
a look at http://www.rennsportsystems.com/~porsche/993.html if you haven't
seen them
IMHO,
the spring rates and shock valving are very well executed and there is
a lot of range for adjustment. I'm very impressed with the performance
and ride quality.
--------------------
Steve
Weiner
Rennsport
Systems
Portland
Oregon
503.244.0990 |
JohnM
User # 2622
posted 08-29-2001 17:17
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Just had a Bilstein PSS9
kit installed, thought I'd share my impressions.
The short version: it's
fantastic!
The long version: car
is a '96 993 Carrera 4, 43k miles, UK spec, std suspension, with 17" Targa
wheels (they look great, I couldn't resist them). Had the car 5 months
now, and whilst handling felt OK at first, as I've got used to the car
and push it harder I've come around to thinking the std suspension is seriously
underdamped, feels like a bouncy castle sometimes . Body floats over fast
crests, bounces around at the rear, rolls too much when you really attack
the bends, ... you get the picture. After perusing the archives I'd got
myself ready to buy either a Techart or H&R kit, but talking to a UK
p-car specialist (James O'Connor of JM Autos) the Bilstein kit came up,
and since just about all the other kits are using Bilstein shocks anyway...
The kit itself is comprehensive
and the parts look great, shame to hide them! James handled the install
and the re-alignment, I went for 993 RS ride heights. All went smoothly,
and I also had a Cargraphics strut brace installed (when you start spending
sometimes it's hard to stop ).
Had an initial run with
the kit at its softest setting (9 on the adjusters), felt too soft to me
so currently they are all on 4. First impression was ride is excellent,
absolutely no harshness, no bangs or crashes over the all too common potholes
and road ridges. It actually deals with poor surfaces better than the std
suspension. At low speeds the stiffer springs betray themselves with a
somewhat joggly ride, but it all smooths out as speed rises. Body control
is now excellent, roll is much reduced, and the car turns in much better
than it used to, with less understeer. Reminds me a little of a 968 Sport
I used to own, though I doubt anything will match the neutrality and friendliness
on the limit that car had.
Overall, I'm really pleased
with the kit. It has transformed the car's ride and handling and made it
much more enjoyable, feels like I think a Porsche ought to. If you're contemplating
getting one (especially if you're currently in a US spec 'hi-rider'
) I'd say go for it, you will not be disappointed.
Now that the handling
is sorted it must be time to get some more horsepower, better re-read those
supercharger threads...
Buck
User # 918
posted 11-17-2001 15:44
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Background:
I replaced the Andial
sport suspension (Bilstein, non-adjustable, with Eibachs) under my '95
with the PSS-9 system a couple of weeks ago. I kept the RS swaybars. The
Andial system was great on the track but I run a lot of autocross and it
was too stiff for the uneven lots we run on most of the time.
On the Street:
On the street it’s very
compliant without being harsh. I haven’t tried the CD changer but I bet
it won’t skip. With the previous set-up it skipped too much to try and
use. You can tell the PSS-9 is sprung pretty stiff when you have the dampers
set full soft. You can feel the progressive spring rate. The combination
of the progressive springs and the soft dampers make for a nice supple
ride. Much nicer than even the standard suspension. Some may prefer the
dampers be a little more in control.
Autocross:
My initial thoughts was
that I’d run the PSS-9 full soft on the street and much firmer for autocross.
I showed up at the first autocross with it set on 4 all around. After walking
the course I decided it needed to be much softer because most of the course
was bumpy/humpy. I set the fronts to full soft (9) and the rears 2 clicks
firmer (7). It was very good right off the bat. We only got 3 runs (188
cars showed up) and I never over drove it, which means I never got to the
limits. I’m pleased it’s this good so quickly. I’m only going to make one
small change next time out. One click firmer in the rear. Still looking
for rotation.
Adjusting:
Adjusting is fairly straight
forward. The rears can easily be reached once you’re laying on the ground.
The fronts are a little more tedious. You need to turn the wheels to full
lock which makes the adjusting location easily reachable. The tedious part:
There is a Blue cap that is slipped over the ‘quarter’ sized adjusting
knob which needs to be removed before adjusting and replaced after adjusting.
It comes off pretty easily with a pair of small pliers. The problem comes
when you’re trying to put it back on without changing the setting. I trimmed
a little off the length of the cap so it would fit between the control
arm and bottom of the strut so I could push it straight on. You just have
to be very careful not to twist the cap as you’re trying to get it back
on.
Very nice upgrade.
p-car.com
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master
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